Before God..

[JM]

We work on a basis of, if something exists it came from somewhere

IF God came from somewhere, where was it?

[friendly hardline atheist]

Originally Posted by JM

We work on a basis of, if something exists it came from somewhere

IF God came from somewhere, where was it?

Uhhhmm, Jon, are you on a sustained effort to drive away christians from this site? You know that the questions 'where did god come from' makes some christians developed instant skin rash, don't you?!

On a more serious note, the correct answer would be the same that scientists admit (far more easily btw) if you ask them what made the big bang come about: beyond a certain point, we don't know. Or in science: we don't know yet.

greets,
Peter

[JM]

honestly I didn't start this thread with that in mind.

I am one who believes God has always been, the Great is.

I just like to stretch our thinking a little both for those who hold varied views about God

[friendly hardline atheist]

Originally Posted by JM

honestly I didn't start this thread with that in mind.

I am one who believes God has always been, the Great is.

I just like to stretch our thinking a little both for those who hold varied views about God

From the scientific point of view I think it is at some point saying 'don't know yet'. If you say 'has always been' (which seems to somewhat contradict the idea of your opening post in this thread, 'if something exists it came from somewhere''), then you assert an idea that would make me think 'please elaborate'.

It may also be good to define what you mean by god, as I suspect it's not what many christians would mean by it. Is it something/one who is concerned with every individual, or is it more like Einsteins god, a metaphore for his bewonderment with the ordering in nature and how it can be captured in equations etc?

greets,
Peter

[JM]

Originally Posted by friendly hardline atheist

From the scientific point of view I think it is at some point saying 'don't know yet'. If you say 'has always been' (which seems to somewhat contradict the idea of your opening post in this thread, 'if something exists it came from somewhere''), then you assert an idea that would make me think 'please elaborate'.

It may also be good to define what you mean by god, as I suspect it's not what many christians would mean by it. Is it something/one who is concerned with every individual, or is it more like Einsteins god, a metaphore for his bewonderment with the ordering in nature and how it can be captured in equations etc?

greets,
Peter

Well thats a good point.. Define what you mean by God.

This could be any number of things but I would say

Existence, Life, Creator

Another point to bear in mind is just because we in this world grasp and see things coming from things, that is not to say outside of what our eyes perceive is something which doesnt operate the same, the complete opposite or a twist on it.

[friendly hardline atheist]

Originally Posted by JM

Well thats a good point.. Define what you mean by God.

This could be any number of things but I would say

Existence, Life, Creator

Another point to bear in mind is just because we in this world grasp and see things coming from things, that is not to say outside of what our eyes perceive is something which doesnt operate the same, the complete opposite or a twist on it.

For that latter bit I think I'll just throw Bertrand Russells galactic teapot example at you. You're right there is no way to exclude the possibility. But barring anything substantial in favour of it, is it sensible to assume things to be so just because you can't make 100% sure of its opposite? If you were to have a change of career and become an astronaut flying to the outer solar system, would you bring a teapot with you, or would you leave that home under the assumption that you'll pick one up in mid flight?

greets,
Peter

[Someday]

Ahhhh....just think, if that teapot is a million light years away...and it zooms in on the earth with it's supa telescope a million years from now, it will observe me alive and well, going about my day. My image is going to travel through space forever! Immortality is nice.

Blessings

[friendly hardline atheist]

Originally Posted by Someday

Ahhhh....just think, if that teapot is a million light years away...and it zooms in on the earth with it's supa telescope a million years from now, it will observe me alive and well, going about my day. My image is going to travel through space forever! Immortality is nice.

Not if some of the young earth creationists have it right, and the speed of light is not constant at all. If they have it right, the light with your 'life' may travel out of the furthest reaches of the universe a bit under 6000 years from now.
So you'll be around for billion of years then.

greets,
Peter

[JM]

Originally Posted by friendly hardline atheist

For that latter bit I think I'll just throw Bertrand Russells galactic teapot example at you. You're right there is no way to exclude the possibility. But barring anything substantial in favour of it, is it sensible to assume things to be so just because you can't make 100% sure of its opposite? If you were to have a change of career and become an astronaut flying to the outer solar system, would you bring a teapot with you, or would you leave that home under the assumption that you'll pick one up in mid flight?

greets,
Peter

What the heck has a teapot to do with, this?

No wonder you don't believe in much, you confuse yourself with teapot stories .. Now go make us a cuppa

[friendly hardline atheist]

Originally Posted by JM

What the heck has a teapot to do with, this?

No wonder you don't believe in much, you confuse yourself with teapot stories .. Now go make us a cuppa

I presume you know Bertrand Russells famous teapot analogy to explain how the inability to disprove an idea 100% doesn't lend it any credibility:

Russell's teapot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The glorious FSM, may noodles be forever upon him, is basically a parody religion that exploits Russells analogy -> make unverifyable, unfalsifyable claim. Then demand respect for it, while all it has going for it, is that it can't be disproven for sure.

greets,
Peter

ps: how many lumps of sugar do you take in your tea?
pps: Debbie sends you her kindest regards.