Tares and Wheat

[retrobyter]

Shalom, everybody!

Well, I've read through your posts in this stream and all I can say is...WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!!!

This is a portion of God's Word we're talking about!! It's not subject to your own interpretation! What did Yeshua` say was the interpretation of HIS parable?

Hear the parable again FOR THE FIRST TIME:

Mattityahu 13:24-30; 36-43
24 Yeshua put before them another parable. "The Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while people were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, then went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads of grain, the weeds also appeared. 27 The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?' 28 He answered, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants asked him, 'Then do you want us to go and pull them up?' 29 But he said, 'No, because if you pull up the weeds, you might uproot some of the wheat at the same time. 30 Let them both grow together until the harvest; and at harvesttime I will tell the reapers to collect the weeds first and tie them in bundled to be burned, but to gather the wheat into my barn.'"
...
36 Then he left the crowds and went into the house. His talmidim approached him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field." 37 He answered, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man; 38 the field is the world. As for the good seed, these are the people who belong to the Kingdom; and the weeds are the people who belong to the Evil One. 39 The enemy who sows them is the Adversary, the harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are collected and burned up in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out of his Kingdom all the things that cause people to sin and all the people who are far from Torah; 42 and they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where people will wail and grind their teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let him hear!"
CJB

Notice that Yeshua` (Jesus) Himself gives all the elements of this parable!

1. The one who sows the good seed = the Son of Man (Yeshua`)
2. The field = the world
3. The good seed = the people who belong to the Kingdom
4. The weeds = the people who belong to the Evil One
5. The enemy who sows the weeds = the Adversary (haSatan)
6. The harvest = the end of the AGE (the Kingdom Age)
7. The harvesters = the angels (the messengers)

The greatest problem that most Gentile Christians have with these parables of Matthew 13 is that they have NO concept of what the Kingdom really is! First of all, it does not NOW exist! It will begin when Yeshua` bodily returns. Secondly, it is not "in our hearts"! It will literally exist in Yerushalayim (Jerusalem) of the country of Yisra'el (Israel) when Yeshua` reigns from His ancestor's David's throne, as the messenger Gavri'el said to Miryam in Luke 1:26-33:

26 In the sixth month, the angel Gavri'el was sent by God to a city in the Galil called Natzeret, 27 to a virgin engaged to a man named Yosef, of the house of David; the virgin's name was Miryam. 28 Approaching her, the angel said, "Shalom, favored lady! ADONAI is with you!" 29 She was deeply troubled by his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 The angel said to her, "Don't be afraid, Miryam, for you have found favor with God. 31 Look! You will become pregnant, you will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Yeshua. 32 He will be great, he will be called Son of Ha`Elyon. ADONAI, God, will give him the throne of his forefather David; 33 and he will rule the House of Ya`akov forever--there will be no end to his Kingdom."
CJB

Therefore, this parable, like the other parables of Matt. 13, are not about THIS age; they are about the Kingdom Age to come! For those who understand, this is about that time AFTER the Second Coming of our Master but before He subjects Himself to the rulership of His Father in that Kingdom:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But the fact is that the Messiah has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have died. 21 For since death came through a man, also the resurrection of the dead has come through a man. 22 For just as in connection with Adam all die, so in connection with the Messiah all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: the Messiah is the firstfruits; then those who belong to the Messiah, at the time of his coming; 24 then the culmination, when he hands over the Kingdom to God the Father, after having put an end to every rulership, yes, to every authority and power. 25 For he has to rule until he puts all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be done away with will be death, 27 for "He put everything in subjection under his feet." (Psalm 8:6) But when it says that "everything" has been subjected, obviously the word does not include God, who is himself the one subjecting everything to the Messiah. 28 Now when everything has been subjected to the Son, then he will subject himself to God, who subjected everything to him; so that God may be everything in everyone.
CJB

THAT'S what will happen during the first 1000 years of His reign! He will begin to reign just in the small country of Yisra'el (as the grain of mustard seed) but He will continue to reign until His Kingdom fills the earth! This will all happen while the Adversary will be incarcerated in the "Abussos" or "Abyss" or "Bottomless Pit." After the Adversary is released from the Pit, that's when the "harvest" will occur. And, after the harvest, the Great White Throne Judgment will happen. It is at this time, according to Yochanan (John) in Revelation 20:11-15, that Yeshua tacks the final nail in Death's coffin! THEN, the Empire of the Son, haMelek Yeshua` (King Jesus), will become the Kingdom of the Father! The final events then are the re-creation of the earth and its sky, the New "Heaven" and the New Earth, the THIRD Earth and its Sky, and the Yerushalayim Chadashah (the New Jerusalem) descends as its final capital city.

With these facts FIRMLY in mind, what is all this other nonsense?

Retrobyter

[SeekerSA]

Originally Posted by retrobyter

Shalom, everybody!

With these facts FIRMLY in mind, what is all this other nonsense?

Retrobyter

It is called TRUTH. Sadly you understand carnally just like the Pharisees did.

Once you discerne the meaning spiritually, the parables take on a whole new meaning.

Blessings

[taffy]

Hi Ret

nonsense REALLY...none as Blind as they who dont see bud.....

MAYBE lets start HERE ..look forward to sharing with you...

you mentioned this.....Tis two fold...

the END comes to all men Bro...

the end of what..and for whom ?..you say age..what age?

and then WHO is the END?


6. The harvest = the end of the AGE (the Kingdom Age)

talk soon

Blessings
Taffy

[retrobyter]

Originally Posted by SeekerSA

It is called TRUTH. Sadly you understand carnally just like the Pharisees did.

Once you discerne the meaning spiritually, the parables take on a whole new meaning.

Blessings

Shabbat shalom, SeekerSA.

"Truth" you say? BASED ON WHAT?!!! It's not about "carnal" vs. "spiritual"; it's about the GOOD NEWS ABOUT THE KINGDOM vs. "another gospel."
All that drivel that was being spued before has no basis in reality! When the Scriptures talk about our God being a consuming fire, for instance, it means PRECISELY that! He CONSUMES that which and he whom displeases Him!

Let's explore this a little; tell me: What are the titles of Yeshua`? What are His credentials?
Let's see if we can come to some form of understanding.

Retrobyter

[taffy]

Originally Posted by retrobyter

Shabbat shalom, SeekerSA.

"Truth" you say? BASED ON WHAT?!!! It's not about "carnal" vs. "spiritual"; it's about the GOOD NEWS ABOUT THE KINGDOM vs. "another gospel."
All that drivel that was being spued before has no basis in reality! When the Scriptures talk about our God being a consuming fire, for instance, it means PRECISELY that! He CONSUMES that which and he whom displeases Him!

Let's explore this a little; tell me: What are the titles of Yeshua`? What are His credentials?
Let's see if we can come to some form of understanding.

Retrobyter

NO NO NO...

please lets stay on Track and sort out what you called as Nonsense...first..plenty of time to discuss other issues RET...

lets play some...

If you understood first the NATURAL then the spirtual as spoken bY smaller in Col 2:19-22 you would possibly understand what SEEKERS talking about..first the shadow..the physical then the reality which IS THE SPIRITUAL,,quite simple really..

Lets not get nasty and personal..lets keep to the scriptures shall we...

could you at leat attempt to answer my last post as you were the one who called posts prior Nonsense.....

Blessings
Taffy

[Someday]

When I said the main message was about not uprooting the tares, it meant that we should not judge. This parable is about knowing what to do when we cannot know people’s hearts for sure. We prejudge. And this rips the body of Christ apart. If we ever err, we must err in grace and love, not judgment. Isn’t this why Jesus said that “before you confront your brother about the speck in his eye, you must remove the log from your own.”
Who separates the wheat from the Tares in the end? Men? No.

Blessings

[retrobyter]

Originally Posted by taffy

Hi Ret

nonsense REALLY...none as Blind as they who dont see bud.....

MAYBE lets start HERE ..look forward to sharing with you...

you mentioned this.....Tis two fold...

the END comes to all men Bro...

the end of what..and for whom ?..you say age..what age?

and then WHO is the END?


6. The harvest = the end of the AGE (the Kingdom Age)

talk soon

Blessings
Taffy

Shabbat shalom, Taffy.

Okay. Here we go: Yes, nonsense, and YES, let's stick to the Scriptures! (BTW, were you calling me, "Bud?") There's "blind" and there's "blind." In YOUR eyes, I'm blind to what you are saying, but in my eyes, YOU are equally as blind to the SIMPLE truths of God's Word.

I, too, enjoy a good debate and will probably enjoy our little ... "sharing."

You said, "the END comes to all men Bro...the end of what..and for whom ?..you say age..what age?"

Why, simply the end of the first thousand years of the Messiah's reign, which will be the end of the Second Earth and its Sky, and the end of the curse of Death. (1 Corinthians 15:20-28; 2 Peter 3:3-13; Revelation 20:1-15; 21:1-4) This AGE in which we live and through which the Messiah will be reigning in Jerusalem, first over just that nation and eventually over all the earth. He will LITERALLY be "the King of kings," which is a phrase used in Dani'el for the King of Bavel (Babylon), N'vukhadnetzar (Nebuchadnezzar), the Emperor of the Babylonian Empire. In Dani'el 2:37, Dani'el (Belteshazzar), Hananyah (Shadrach), Misha'el (Meshach), and `Azaryah (Abed-nego) addressed N'vukhadnetzar with this title. He WAS a king of kings or a king over kings. That's the definition of an emperor.

It is also a phrase applied to other emperors, such as Artach'shashta (Artaxerxes), king of Persia, in Ezra 7:12 and N'vukhadretzar (Nebuchadrezzar), king of Babylon, in Ezekiel 26:7. Yeshua` the Messiah is predicted to rule the nations with a rod of iron. He WON'T be a "Casper Milk-toast" kind of king!!! He won't be a push-over, nor will He be all love and no justice or holiness. Consider the words of

Isaiah 45:20-25
20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.
21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour ("Yeshua`"); there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved ("yasha`"), all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
KJV

Check out the prophecy in Psalm 2!

Psalm 2:1-12
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed (His Messiah), saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
KJV

As a matter of fact, Dani'el 2 PREDICTS that the God of heaven would establish a kingdom that fills the earth and lasts forever. The Messiah is also referred to as a King of Kings in 1 Timothy 6:15; Revelation 17:14; and Revelation 19:16.

Then you said, "and then WHO is the END?"

This sounds like a leading question to me. It's a bait-and-switch. I would expect that you want me to say Yeshua` (Jesus) is the END, but I won't do it. He's not just the END; He's also the BEGINNING!!! (Revelation 1:8)

Helpful? I pray so.

Retrobyter

[taffy]

Originally Posted by Someday

When I said the main message was about not uprooting the tares, it meant that we should not judge. This parable is about knowing what to do when we cannot know people’s hearts for sure. We prejudge. And this rips the body of Christ apart. If we ever err, we must err in grace and love, not judgment. Isn’t this why Jesus said that “before you confront your brother about the speck in his eye, you must remove the log from your own.”
Who separates the wheat from the Tares in the end? Men? No.

Blessings

Thanks for expounding Someday

If we ever err, we must err in grace and love, not judgment. AMEN

That in DUE time He may have Mercy On ALL



Zec 7:9 Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:





Who separates the wheat from the Tares in the end? Men? No. Amen ....

Jhn 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me


Blesings
Taffy

[taffy]

Morning Ret...BUD, we use that as a friendly Term for friend....nothing personal

Okay. Here we go: Yes, nonsense, and YES, let's stick to the Scriptures! (BTW, were you calling me, "Bud?") There's "blind" and there's "blind." In YOUR eyes, I'm blind to what you are saying, but in my eyes, YOU are equally as blind to the SIMPLE truths of God's Word.

Blind ....One scripturally who is Blind is one who doesnt SEE meaning ...one who doesnt UNDERSTAND....
I too used to believe what you present, nothing new Ret

I, too, enjoy a good debate and will probably enjoy our little ... "sharing."

Why, simply the end of the first thousand years of the Messiah's reign, which will be the end of the Second Earth and its Sky, and the end of the curse of Death. (1 Corinthians 15:20-28; 2 Peter 3:3-13; Revelation 20:1-15; 21:1-4) This AGE in which we live and through which the Messiah will be reigning in Jerusalem, first over just that nation and eventually over all the earth. He will LITERALLY be "the King of kings," which is a phrase used in Dani'el for the King of Bavel (Babylon), N'vukhadnetzar (Nebuchadnezzar), the Emperor of the Babylonian Empire. In Dani'el 2:37, Dani'el (Belteshazzar), Hananyah (Shadrach), Misha'el (Meshach), and `Azaryah (Abed-nego) addressed N'vukhadnetzar with this title. He WAS a king of kings or a king over kings. That's the definition of an emperor.

6. The harvest = the end of the AGE (the Kingdom Age).....

You seem to be looking OUTWARD Ret ,and still waiting like your forefathers before you...
The harvest is NOT a future time...TIS NOW...

Christ IS was and WILL be.....

The field is the WORLD where the harvest begins......the harvest has BEGAN Ret....

let the scriptures SPEAK....two witnessess should be suffice.

Luk 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly [is] great, but the labourers [are] few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.


Luk 10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.

again NOT my words Ret,,LIFT UP YOUR EYES( poor disciples NEVER UNDERSTOOD NEITHER Ret,

Jhn 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and [then] cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.


Jhn 4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.

Jhn 4:37 And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.


Jhn 4:38 I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours


Then you said, "and then WHO is the END?"

He's not just the END; He's also the BEGINNING!!! (Revelation 1:8)

AMEN.....



..

if we DONT understand one simple concept of scripture which is this...you miss the point,,they all testify to HIM.

Jhn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water

HE is this GIFT of LIVING WATER who is the beginning and the END...

THE jew still await THEIR COMING king..NOT A LOT HAS cHANGED IN CENTURIES..AND YA STILL WAIT.

Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Tabernacles IS now...

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Faith comes BY hearing ..one has to HEAR the gospel then the END shall COME...

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come

YA STILL WAITING FOR the end TO COME...tis come...ANGELS ARE PURELY MESSENGERS as was Paul and John the baptist...

Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Salvation IS come Ret ...WE are THE children OF TO DAY

Luk 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

Christ is the END of our FAITH,,IT DOESNT say WAIT AND RECIEVE the end..HE IS THE END


1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls

Who is the END of the Children of PROMISE..the one and the VERY SAME..its the same END Ret..you still waiting for the END...

Rom 4:16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


It is also a phrase applied to other emperors, such as Artach'shashta (Artaxerxes), king of Persia, in Ezra 7:12 and N'vukhadretzar (Nebuchadrezzar), king of Babylon, in Ezekiel 26:7. Yeshua` the Messiah is predicted to rule the nations with a rod of iron. He WON'T be a "Casper Milk-toast" kind of king!!! He won't be a push-over, nor will He be all love and no justice or holiness. Consider the words of

dear dear...just what is a ROD of IRON ...Paul had use of this ROD,,tis true..
Its a ROD of correction , Hard LOVE if you will....

1Cr 4:21 What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and [in] the spirit of meekness?


Now ponder some...was pAUL going to beat the crap out of them with a ROD..
Of course NOT...the same ROD was used in Galatians....YOU FOOLISH GAlations..firm correction

They to were still suffereing from the conditioning of their forefathers...

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Isaiah 45:20-25
20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.
21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour ("Yeshua`"); there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved ("yasha`"), all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
KJV

Nope tis happening NOW..your KING has COME..salvation is come.

Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

you really think that HE will literally BREAK the LEGS to cause people to BOW.

Indeed in Due time ALL will call him LORD for None can call HIM lord unless by the HOLY spirit....sounds like conversion for me.

Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;


Phl 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


Check out the prophecy in Psalm 2!

Psalm 2:1-12
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed (His Messiah), saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
KJV

Ret...do you KNOW we are ALL the potters vessels.. some the vessel of Dishonour .some made the vessel of Honour?..yep...some have been smashed and remoulded but it the SAME lump of Clay he uses....we are all smashed pots RENEWED by HIS HAND

you still waiting for this too

Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou [art] our father; we [are] the clay, and thou our potter; and we all [are] the work of thy hand.


Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make [it].

Are we NOT SPirItual Jews by circumcision OF THE heart Ret?,we his Children are the NEW israel..The new Jerusalem..The Temple MADE witout hands...

Jer 18:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay [is] in the potter's hand, so [are] ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

we are ALL his workmanship ...HIS creation

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
just a chapter or so later we read this

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

There HIDDEN treasure in all clay POTS Ret....Hidden behind the veil of the HEART....

spoken of in this parable


Mat 13:44 ¶ Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.


Mat 13:45 ¶ Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:


Mat 13:46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Nice chatting Ret..
Blessings
Taffy

[Someday]

Whereas I am often accused of "overspiritualizing" things in the Bible, I don't think this parable has more meaning than what Jesus explained. He does not explain this as the inner Kingdom at all. He is speaking to his apostles when he explains it, and giving them the meaning of it. So when he calls the field the world, I don't think he means the Kingdom within.

Blessings