Da Vinci Code

[Jacob]

Hmmm.... I underestimated you. My sincere apologies.

A similar quotation:

"...Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things [strange occurrences, wars, stars and moons etc] have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away." (Luke 21:25-33)

Clearly, this has not happened.

[Gareth]

Originally Posted by Jacob

Hmmm.... I underestimated you. My sincere apologies.

A similar quotation:

"...Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things [strange occurrences, wars, stars and moons etc] have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away." (Luke 21:25-33)

Clearly, this has not happened.

If you look in Matthew's account it goes thus:

Matthew 24:3
3 While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?�

If you look at this Jesus is actually asked 3 questions.
1)When will these things be
2) What will be the sign of your pressence
3) and the conclusion of the system of things

Jesus then answers. He talks first about false teachings entering into the congregation. Then he talks about a future time of wars and earthquakes marking the 'sign' of his pressence. It's this future generation who experience the events of the sign of his presence that will not pass away before the 3rd question comes into play and the conclusion of this wicked world that was usurped by Satan back in the garden of eden all those years ago.

The whole prophecy spans the 2000 years from when it was uttered up untill our day and into our future. We are witnessing the fulfillment of many of the words of this prophecy so take care. It is our generation that will not pass away. That means us.

[Jacob]

I think the problem with arguing about specifics in the Bible is that it is so ambiguous. Anyway, good discussion. So far you're one of the few Christians here to present a decent argument. Congratulations!

Gareth is giving you facts and you still do not want to know. I thought you said you knew the Bible? Many people say they knew Jesus, even the demons, but that will not get them to Heaven. It is a personal relationship with Him that will. God's words not mine! Thank you Lord that we can see many, many coming to you new each day.

[Gareth]

Originally Posted by Jacob

I think the problem with arguing about specifics in the Bible is that it is so ambiguous. Anyway, good discussion. So far you're one of the few Christians here to present a decent argument. Congratulations!

Really 'm not trying to argue, just stating my beliefs about all the things I have read and seen taking place. Really it is easy to just say the Bible is so ambiguous. In some ways it is and in others it is not. The amazing thing about the Bible for me is that if you're reading it and finding a seeming contradiction it's because your understanding of some aspect of it is lacking. The fact is the Bible was written by many people from all sorts of different backgrounds over many hundreds of years. And still I find the Bible harmonises with itself completely. The same thread runs throughout the Bible and gradually unfolds down the generations. I don't believe such harmony could be the product of human hearts and minds. It is far too consistent throughout the ages. Prophecies are recorded and then hundreds of years later someone records their fulfilment. Historians have been trying very hard to dispute the authenticity of the Bible and so far, despite a hundred years of rather determined effort, the Bible just seems to turn out to be the most reliable source of all sorts of historical facts. Going back to ambiguity I think this passage is important from Hebrews.

Hebrews 4:12

12 For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern thoughts and intentions of [the] heart.

(italics are mine...)

Basically the Bible seems to be written in such a way that if you really don't want to believe it or if you really want to rubbish it then it won't stop you. It does not (for instance) state categorically some detailed scientific fact that could unmistakably only be of divine origin and therefore "prove" itself to be true in an obvious manner. No. You have to really want there to be something more and better than this discounting and perverse world on the way. Many people don't like the idea of Armageddon. If they were given the choice of their being a God who would step in to solve the worlds problems or be left to carry on our own way, they would choose to carry on as we are. Arguing that science is solving the problems. They are reluctant to follow someone else's rules and prefer to make up their own. The Bible allows you to do this. God created us with freedom of choice. However, even when I doubted the existence of God, I still wanted to think that maybe it was true. Maybe someone all powerful really was going to step in and save all the dying starving children of the world from greedy dictators. If you want the world to be a better place, even as the creator originally created it (think Eden) and are more than prepared to follow God's good guidance, given in the Bible, the Bible will open up to you. When you drop the 'I don't want to believe' closed mind frame and open up to the possibility that the Bible really is true, then you begin to give the scriptures a chance to unfold. And you begin to notice the striking coherence of this ancient book. The fact that even though it is not a book on science and has nothing to say on this human pursuit, where it says something that has a bearing on science it is in harmony with it. No. I mean science that is respectably proven. The theory of evolution really is still a theory despite what supposedly learned people might say. The fact that it mentions the earth 'hanging upon nothing' is frankly astonishing if you really think about it with an open mind. So it's carefully crafted to discern your heart condition. Do you like this mean and selfish world with all its glamour and short term pleasures? Or do you crave after long lasting happiness that only our creator can provide? I'll quote that passage again. I think it's a good one

Hebrews 4:12

12 For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern thoughts and intentions of [the] heart.

(italics are mine...)

Remember if you look for ambiguities you will surely find them. However if your looking instead for answers.... well they are there in abundence

You beat me to it Gareth. I was just preparing that one! Be blessed brother!

[Tzurijah]

I don't understand why you are even entertaining the "Da Vinci Code". I've never read so much drivel in my life. If it wasn't so poorly written it might get away with being a good murder mystery. I only really need to make one point about the Da Vinci Code, and it has to do with Leonardo Da Vinci.

Da Vinci was a homosexual Italian artist, who was renowned for his belief in homosexual secrets within historical stories. If we look at the last supper, the picture of "Mary" is actually St. John. It's apparent, because Da Vinci used to paint St. John in a very feminine manner, as shown http://www.mystudios.com/art/italian...-john-1513.jpg <---- there. In truth, anyone who believes and pins their ideas to Leonardo Da Vinci about religious things, is a fool.

I suppose I should point out that the original book about this theory, was written by people who conveniently lived right next to, dun dun dun, Mount Sion! :P

[Benji]

Perhaps the greatest reason to have an understanding of the book and film is simply because it can provide the opportunity to dialogue with the masses that have read the book and then those that see the film. Too often we take a situation like this and choose to boycot the film, but it doesn't go away. An understanding of it helps in sharing better news in an arena of interest.

I don't have to like the book or film to acknowledge that God is big enough to cause something good to come from it.

[MicahHall]

I have found the book to be interesting and entertaining. I think that it is a brilliantly thought out story, not necessarily in the plot, but in the details that go into the story. I do, however, think that anyone who reads it and accepts it as fact is ridiculously ignorant. There are so many "facts" in that book that are clearly not proven facts (i.e. there are NOT 666 panes of glass in the Louvre pyramid) and that can be easily refuted. Dan Brown claims that this is a work of fiction, Ron Howard claims that this is a work of fiction, why are there still people trying to accept it as a work of theological truth. I have no problem with people who refuse to go see it, that is certainly a right that they are welcome to exercise. I just don't think that this book/movie deserves all the controversy that it has stirred up. Why don't we concentrate on something more important? There are many damaging lies being told that are actually being passed off as truth. This novel is not one of them.

Good point Micah. Actually there are 667 panes of glass! I think people are always searching for some truths, so when something like this comes up they grasp at straws. The Christian does not have to do that as he has already found the Truth - Jesus! Hallelujah and with that I can wake up each monring and shout aloud "Jesus thank you for this day!!!!!!!" Joy! Joy! Joy!