Embryology bill defeated

[friendly hardline atheist]

Hi Someday,

Just to acknowledge your post. I'm catching up after not posting for a couple of days. I did see your latest post on genetic manipulation. Along with various other threads, I'll try to get around to it soon. Even if this thread slips off the recent posts list, I won't forget about it.

[friendly hardline atheist]

Hello Someday,

Here is the reply I promised over two months ago. Sorry that it took ages, and let me explain why that is.

Originally Posted by Someday

This is what I get for picking a quote out of my local newspaper. You are correct. My quote was wrong and I retract it. In fact, your quote is equally wrong. The internet media and the media in general has misled us again. I read what you wrote and turned to Google as you did, and I actually came up with a wide variety of quotes. The one you give is the dominate one. It's wrong though.
I decided to turn to the source. The article that appeared in L’Osservatore Romano on 9March08, written by Nicola Gori.

I see. Given the different quotes, I readily accept that some must be wrong. As you say, the best thing is to turn to the source to see what it says. But at that point our approaches converge. For source you turned to the text on the Acton blog. This is imo not the best thing one could do. As you also found out, most news sources cited the quote I posted earlier. That included the Reuters news agency, CNN, the New York Times, the UK Times and more than a thousand and a half other news sources. If you see valid reason to dismiss what they write ok, but then taking as gospel the text from a religious blog page seems less than satisfactory.

A better approach would be to read what the L’Osservatore Romano itself wrote, rather than how anyone recites from it in their paper, tv news report or blog page. So I set out to obtain a copy of L’Osservatore Romano. This is where things slowed down to a crawl. The L’Osservatore Romano website states that back issues are available. So I wrote an email to obtain a copy. I got a very friendly response from Annamaria Di Domenicantonio saying she could send me a copy. But after confirming my postal address nothing happened for several weeks. In that period I moved to Scotland. Once there I emailed again and Annamaria said she'd send out another copy to my new address. But when I got back after some weeks holiday in Indonesia, it still wasn't there. So two periods of weeks of waiting, Summer holiday and moving explain why it took such ages. I'm starting to suspect God may be on to my intentions and has divinely intervened to make the paper mail disappear again, lol!

The unsatisfying outcome is that we're left with what practically all the media report versus the interview text on the Acton blog page. If accepting what all the media report means that I 'fell for it hook line and sinker', then how would you describe your own willingness to accept the Acton blog text? Given that you responded quickly and cited an internet source, I assume you didn't obtain a copy of the L’Osservatore Romano either and that we're both only quoting Google results?

Given the time invested in trying to obtain the original issue of L’Osservatore Romano and the repeated failures to actually get it, I've dropped this particular pursuit for now. Without the issue of L’Osservatore Romano, I can't show if the media reporting of the interview is correct or the text from the Acton blog. If you care to pursue the matter and obtain the L’Osservatore Romano (issues come in both Italian and English, the interview is included in the weekly English version of 19 March), I might come to share your opinion on media myth making if the Acton blog text proves correct. But given your 'hook, line and sinker' dismissal of the text I found everywhere, I assume you won't hold it against me if I don't uncritically accept the Acton blog as the Inerrant Word of Internet.

greets,
Peter

[Someday]

It's a shame that they haven't sent it to you. I am positive that it's Italian original will read almost exactly the same as this English translation provided on the Action Blog. The reason for my confidence is due to my deep respect for the Action Institute.

Bishop Girotti invented no new sins. He presented the reflections that many moral theologians have been making for many years. In this case it was the media's hype that changed a theological and spiritual reflection into an object of sensation and controversy.

Vatican edicts are never delivered by second tier Vatican officials. This whole story is is an especially vivid example of modern journalism as hyperkinetic child overstimulated by a hunger for a head-turning angle that might draw an audience. Important stories, sometimes the product of months of serious reporting, that in an earlier era would have captured the attention of the entire media community can disappear with barely a whisper. Bishop Girotti said that the modern world does not understand the nature of sin according to Roman Catholic theology. With the way they covered this interview, the mass media unintentionally underlined the Bishop's point.

You may not see this the same way as I do, and you may choose to believe the media on this one. I'm not going to. Not when every Catholic source I've encountered denies there are any "new" sins.

Blessings

[friendly hardline atheist]

Hello Someday,

Originally Posted by Someday

You may not see this the same way as I do, and you may choose to believe the media on this one.

The text on the Acton blog has caused me to doubt the media reporting a bit. With multiple contradictory sources, I don't take the Acton blog text as gospel, but I also no longer take the mainstream media for certain on this one anymore.

As you said, it's a pity the paper copies kept disappearing. Or that I wasn't emailed a pdf, especially since their website says they do keep a digitized archive.

greets,
Peter

[Someday]

Have you seen this story yet? Simply amazing! I really did not see this one coming, not from teeth anyway.

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Stem cells 'created from teeth'

Blessings

P.S. I am curious if the Tooth Fairy is going to make her huge collection of teeth available for medical research.

[friendly hardline atheist]

Hi Someday,

Originally Posted by Someday

Have you seen this story yet? Simply amazing! I really did not see this one coming, not from teeth anyway.

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Stem cells 'created from teeth'

Blessings

P.S. I am curious if the Tooth Fairy is going to make her huge collection of teeth available for medical research.

Thanks for linking that interesting bit that fits in very well in this thread. No, I certainly hadn't thought about stem cells from teeth either. With the exception of hair it would have been about the last tissue I would have put my money on.

It almost conjures up Jurassic Park ideas, create organism from any bit of old tissue. Hmmm, those teeth in that T-rex skeleton I saw in the museum.....let me think.

greets,
Peter

[friendly hardline atheist]

Since stem cell research is all the rage on this forum, I thought I'd post one about what stem cells can be used for, rather than how they can be produced:

Embryonic stem cells made into functioning red blood cells

Peter