Indians and salvation

[Hopiboy]

As a Hopi Indian and also a Christian (and a Buddhist too) I find it difficult to believe that non-believers are in Hell. My beautiful Hopi Indian grandma was the sweetest kindest soul I ever met. But because she was a non-believer how can I think she is damned? What of the other Indians that go way back 12,000 years to the crossing of the ice bridge? Are they really all damned? Those millions of native people?

What of the other Indians? The Buddhists from India and other Asian countries? They also predate our saviour, Jesus Christ. They are also very sweet and kind. How can I believe they have no salvation? Is there also salvation through good works like in the parable of the good Samaritan in the book of Luke?

Peace and Blessings,
Hopiboy

[JM]

sorry hopiboy you cant be all 3 your either 1 or your not any.. a christian is not a buddhist too

That is a very good question. The Dalai Lama once said that on the personal level, one religion is enough - but within a society many religions are needed to cater for everyone's taste.

I think God just gave us lots of choice in religion. Pick any one, and your choosing a path which god set down for us to find.

I think the path of Christianity was set for people who need to be in an exclusive religion, so that they can have fun saying that everyone else is damned.

I am sure your grandmother is quite safe - because I believe in a compassionate God.

[JM]

I believe in a compassionate God but I also believe in a Just God the fact is their are a lot of people in the world who are good by nature, meaning they dont harm anyone, they help, they love etc etc.. but its not on the basis of how good you are in this life, which determines where you spend eternity

Its like the story of the 3 men who were on top of a building which was on fire. 1 of them was a Business Man, who gave a good portion of his money to the poor, he even attended the odd church gathering at easter, by nature he was a good guy. The next was a Man who donated his time, his money and his life to charities. The next was a person who lived on the streets, stole, begged, never gave and hated everyone.

They knew they had to get to the next building to survive there was no way down. The first man, look at the others and said " well im better than them, ill certainly make it " he took a run and jumped and he made 1/4 of the way and fell to his death.

The second man, said.. I can do better than that.. he ran and made it half way and fell to his death

Lastly the man who had done all the wrong in his life ran and he mad it 3/4 of the way and fell to his death..

The bible says " For all have fallen short of the Glory of God "

None of us, including myself measure up to the standard or can reach in our own selves acceptance with God..

That is why Jesus Came to brige the gap.

Unless a person comes to Jesus, Acknowledges what he did on the cross, acceptes him as savior, repents of the sin that seperates him/her from God and turns away from it and starts to follow Jesus Christ.

Your already living seperated from God.. After death you will be judged by God for whether or not you accepted Jesus Christ or not... it will have nothing to do with your grandmother being a sweet old lady. My grandmother is a sweet old lady and she even says she believes in God but she has never repented of her sin and asked Jesus to be her Lord and Savior, so she will be accountable before God for this choice.

Regarding the Dalai Lama he too will be accountable for his chooses, if he does not choose to follow Jesus Christ. The whole statement he made about the need for lots of religion is a crock of crap!

This is just used as a cop out for not accepting that you might be responsible for the sin in your life.

and regarding what you said here " I think the path of Christianity was set for people who need to be in an exclusive religion, so that they can have fun saying that everyone else is damned"

The bible says " There is a way that seems right to a man but it leads to death "

Christiantiy is not an exclusive religion, it was Jesus who said.. I am the way the Truth and the Life noone comes to the father but by me" There is only one way to have a relationship with God and its through Jesus Christ.

And be assured noone has any fun in knowing people are going to be eternally seperated from God.. that is why we share the message of Jesus christ with people, because I myself at one time was one without Jesus and dammed.

[Hopiboy]

Hello Jon Mills,

Thank you for your input. But because Buddhism is fundamentally non-theistic it can also be used with any other faith or lifestyle. in 543BC in Sarnath India, Buddha said that he was only a man and not a god.

Even the Dalai Lama acknowldges that he is only a humble monk and not a god-figure. But he also understands that certain tribal Tibetan people need a spiritual god-figure, so he works in that setting too.

And today we even have notable Christian/Buddhists authors such as Thomas Merton the Catholic monk and Zen Buddhist.

Peace and blessings to all everywhere,
throughout space and time,
Hopiboy

[jwhitten]

People can claim to be many things. That does not make it so.

The Jesus in the Holy Bible, son of the one true God is just that - the son of the one true God.

As a Christian, one knows that Jesus is also God. There is only one God, not many. Therefore, you cannot be a Buddhist and a Christian. The two are not compatible.

No matter how you try to confuse the issue. No matter how many examples of people you can present who claim to be one thing or another, you cannot be a Christian unless you believe that the Father is the only true God and that Jesus is His only begotten son who died on the cross to atone for the sins of mankind.

There is only one reality. Regardless of how people try to mix and match and invent religions to suit their on desires, there is only one God. Anyone who is a true Christian knows that.

Joe

[Jacob]

Don't tell Hopiboy what to believe in, Jwhitten. Grow up and accept the fact that the world is diverse.

[lindsey]

Hopiboy I believe everyone will be given a choice to believe in christ even at the last moment. I know that Christ is a loving and caring God and will not dam me or any of my relatives if they were not brought the truth before dying. I know that would be an unfair advantage to those that have never heard the truth before death. To condemn someone for not having truth would be from an unfair unloving deity. I know there is time for those who did not accept the truth or did not recieve the truth before dying. Can you imagine the millions of people on the earth that have not heard the truth and many believe they are condemned to hell for not hearing the truth? I do know the Lord has made a way for all people to know the truth even after dying. That would be so unfair if it wasnt.

And if I remember right only Christ can make that judgement and no one else. No minister, no person, no religion can dam a person to hell only Christ our savior can. He is the final say so. The final judgement.

[Hopiboy]

Thank you for all the input.

It is difficult for Indians and Buddhists to find answers in the Old Testament. Biblical history only goes back 6000 years and is limited to the mideast culture and area. The Hopis and Buddhists see life as having a beginingless past and endless future. Like the circle symbol. Both see all life forms as equally beautiful and sacred with no discriminations. No damnations of certain people.

This might be why I like the New better than the Old Testament.

[Daniel's_Vision]

Originally Posted by lindsey

Hopiboy I believe everyone will be given a choice to believe in christ even at the last moment. I know that Christ is a loving and caring God and will not dam me or any of my relatives if they were not brought the truth before dying. I know that would be an unfair advantage to those that have never heard the truth before death. To condemn someone for not having truth would be from an unfair unloving deity. I know there is time for those who did not accept the truth or did not recieve the truth before dying. Can you imagine the millions of people on the earth that have not heard the truth and many believe they are condemned to hell for not hearing the truth? I do know the Lord has made a way for all people to know the truth even after dying. That would be so unfair if it wasnt.

And if I remember right only Christ can make that judgement and no one else. No minister, no person, no religion can dam a person to hell only Christ our savior can. He is the final say so. The final judgement.

Not bad Lindsey...

No, you simply can't have a fair and just God without everyone getting a fair and just chance to accept the Savior now can you?

Are those that were born at a time and place where the gospel was not taught ,not the sons and daughters of a just Heavenly Father? Are they not counted among the sheep of the Savior's flock? Would not a plan be in place to give these sons and daughters the same opportunity as those of any other generation that got to know the Lord?

I have a good understanding of the atonment...Jon Mills is right in saying, "everyone will fall short of the mark"...It is why there is a need of a Savior...for Mercy cannot rob Justice...But Mercy and Justice are both met through the Savior, and Lindsay is right in saying "He has the final say"...And knowing the Savior, means knowing He will not damn those who did not have a chance to listen and accept...for that would not meat the standard set forth by Justice.