WHAT In The World Is . . .

[Trekker06]

Originally Posted by RadLad72

I'm sorry.

People can try to justify anything, but unless it is from God (ie. in the Scriptures) then there is no light in it.

There is no evidence of Godly given 'slain in the Spirit' experiences, nor this 'holy laughter' nonsense.

So true ...they simply are not practices that the Bible endorses.

Originally Posted by RadLad72

People get overwhelmed and worked up and cannot control themselves.

When people are aroused into a highly emotional and suggestive state they are capable of doing things that they might not otherwise dream of doing. Some, even many, are candidates for hypnosis and these so-called 'signs' of the Holy Spirit are explained away very well with psychology ...or even just plain common sense. Sadly, this explanation has nothing to do with the influence of the Holy Spirit.

Originally Posted by RadLad72

Would it surprise you to know that these practices occur in pagan peoples such as Haiti and other places like that? People fall down in trances and have 'seizures' and the like. I am pretty sure no one here would believe they are doing something sanctioned by God in His holy Word.

While I wouldn't go so far as to say that the Christians of today who participate in these practices are under the influence of evil spirits, I do agree that the same 'principle' is in effect as per the Haitians and the believers of voodoo. I mean, people are people and their emotional make-up and their 'human-ness' is similar regardless of their nationality or culture. Simply because one claims to be 'Christian' and 'Spirit-filled' doesn't give one carte blanch to perform 'the weird and the wonderful' without some form of rational reasoning. Nor does it make their participation in these practices and their reasons (causes) for doing so any different from those of the Haitians and voodoo tribes.

The thing is, Christianity - in and of itself - has become boring to a world that desires glamor and glitter and lots and lots of the pretentious. So many today require 'signs' and 'miracles' and this is where their Christianity is leading them. They make demands on the Holy Spirit and, in their minds anyway, they get what they demand.

Originally Posted by RadLad72

This gibberish that Pentecostals go on with is not scriptural. They are practices done by pagan people who have nothing to do with God and they have been brought over to a religion like so much other stuff that doesn't belong in Christianity.

True. These so-called Christian practices previously mentioned are so strikingly similar to those of the pagan culture that one would think that they (the practices) would have been brought into question long ago.

Originally Posted by RadLad72

BTW - Paul was actually chiding the people of Corinth for following pagan people with their 'tongue-speaking' which you will see if you take off your blinkers and read it for what it is.

Again true. If the 'Pentecostals' actually did a serious study on the Church of Corinth, its culture and its background and also Paul's address to the many questionable practices that were taking place at the time, they would probably . . .hmmm . . .then again, they probably wouldn't. They would instead justify 'slaying in the Spirit', 'holy laughter', 'tongues', etc. with some typical rhetoric simply because 'the gifts of the Spirit' is the major doctrine of that Movement. Take away 'the miraculous' and suddenly the Movement becomes boring. They might even have to go back to singing songs from the hymnal ...

By the way, the Catholics, the JWs, the Mormons, the SDAs, etc. often take a beating on this forum from some. These denominations are seen as heretics. I trust that my views on some of the practices of the Pentecostal Movement are no less welcome here. My address is not to 'people' per se but to the practices of a particular church culture. The people within this culture are not necessarily bad people or even necessarily un-Christian. But I do believe that many of them are misguided.

Originally Posted by RadLad72

I'm sorry.

People can try to justify anything, but unles it is from God (ie. in the Scirptures) then there is no light in it.

There is no evidence of Godly given 'slain in the Spirit' experiences, nor this 'holy laughter' nonsense.

People get overwhelmed and worked up and cannot control themselves.

Would it surprise you to know that these practices occur in pagan peoples such as Haiti and other places like that? People fall down in trances and have 'seizures' and the like. I am prety sure noone here would believe they are doing something sanctioned by God in His holy Word.

This gibberish that Pentecostals go on with is not scriptural. They are practices done by pagan people who have nothing to do with God and they have been brought over to a religion like so much other stuff that doesn't belong in Christianity.

BTW - Paul was actually chiding the people of Corinth for following pagan people with their 'tongue-speaking' which you will see if you take off your blinkers and read it for what it is.

Rad.

(I hope there are no swear words in this missive Jeff)

No , no swear words. I take it this is your light hearted joke to me. But... please do not insult Pentecostals as you have done above. There are many Pentecostal that would feel very insulted by your remarks. Also you just may be committing the unpardonable sin of insulting the Holy Spirit.

[Trekker06]

Originally Posted by Jeff Mills

No , no swear words. I take it this is your light hearted joke to me. But... please do not insult Pentecostals as you have done above. There are many Pentecostal that would feel very insulted by your remarks. Also you just may be committing the unpardonable sin of insulting the Holy Spirit.

Jeff, no offense, but you have no compunction at all in calling a spade a spade with the Catholics. There are some Christians who REALLY have a problem with (some of) the practices of the Pentecostal Movement. They too believe that they are calling a spade a spade. And, they have scriptural backing for doing so. If the Pentecostals feel insulted then they probably feel the same way as do the Catholics who read some of your posts.

As for committing the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit ...some (and I am one) don't believe these practices ARE of the Holy Spirit so I seriously doubt that the Holy Spirit (I almost initialized that) will be offended.

Originally Posted by Trekker06

Jeff, no offense, but you have no compunction at all in calling a spade a spade with the Catholics. There are some Christians who REALLY have a problem with (some of) the practices of the Pentecostal Movement. They too believe that they are calling a spade a spade. And, they have scriptural backing for doing so. If the Pentecostals feel insulted then they probably feel the same way as do the Catholics who read some of your posts.

As for committing the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit ...some (and I am one) don't believe these practices ARE of the Holy Spirit so I seriously doubt that the Holy Spirit (I almost initialized that) will be offended.

Trekker I will remind you once again you are on a Born-again site so please respect our views on being slain in the Spirit. It is a work of the Spirit whether you agree or not and it does not call for insults. Bringing up about the Rc churhc has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. I will NOT repeat NOT allow people to continue to insult the Holy Spirit. Be warned!

[Trekker06]

Originally Posted by Jeff Mills

Trekker I will remind you once again you are on a Born-again site so please respect our views on being slain in the Spirit. It is a work of the Spirit whether you agree or not and it does not call for insults. Bringing up about the Rc churhc has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. I will NOT repeat NOT allow people to continue to insult the Holy Spirit. Be warned!

I have not seen thus far one piece of scriptural evidence for the practices mentioned above and yet I am being threatened with removal from the forum because I don't accept them as being scriptural.

I'll stifle what I REALLY want to say to you, Jeff, because if I did you would then have REAL cause to dispose of me. Suffice it to say, I'm utterly appalled.

[Enterprise]

Originally Posted by Trekker06

I have not seen thus far one piece of scriptural evidence for the practices mentioned above and yet I am being threatened with removal from the forum because I don't accept them as being scriptural.

I'll stifle what I REALLY want to say to you, Jeff, because if I did you would then have REAL cause to dispose of me. Suffice it to say, I'm utterly appalled.

Intresting that if a person was doing these actions about 400 years ago, they would have been branded a witch and satan worshiper, yet now it is accepted in church. The Times do change, but is it scriptual? I think not, I myself see it as people not only fooling others but also fooling themselves. I only speak one tounge English, but know a few people who can speak other tounges like Spanish,German, Arabic, Latin, Greek, Danish and others and these are the tounges that were 'the gifts' given to those by God, to spead Gods word, to the peolpes of the Earth.

Originally Posted by Trekker06

I have not seen thus far one piece of scriptural evidence for the practices mentioned above and yet I am being threatened with removal from the forum because I don't accept them as being scriptural.

I'll stifle what I REALLY want to say to you, Jeff, because if I did you would then have REAL cause to dispose of me. Suffice it to say, I'm utterly appalled.

Trekker it is not your point about disagreeing with being slain in the Spirit. I have no problem with that. It is your insult to the Holy Spirit!

Originally Posted by Trekker06

Jeff, no offense, but you have no compunction at all in calling a spade a spade with the Catholics. There are some Christians who REALLY have a problem with (some of) the practices of the Pentecostal Movement. They too believe that they are calling a spade a spade. And, they have scriptural backing for doing so. If the Pentecostals feel insulted then they probably feel the same way as do the Catholics who read some of your posts.

As for committing the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit ...some (and I am one) don't believe these practices ARE of the Holy Spirit so I seriously doubt that the Holy Spirit (I almost initialized that) will be offended.

i agree: doubting or denying that sth. is of the Holy Spirit is NOT the unpardonable sin. that is simply unbelief. saying that the works of the Spirit are done by the power of satan, is.

i will say that there is quite some faking or man-made, self-produced falling or laughter etc. going on. but that does not deny the genuine happening as and when and where they happen.

as to the biblicality of it, i can only think of Acts 2: 1 - 13, and the mocking remark of them being full of new wine cannot have referred to slurred speech as everyone understood them perfectly well in their own language.

interesting note: that non-believers called it "full of new wine", thus repeating and unknowingly acknowledging what Jesus had said about new wine in new wineskins.

the same thing happened to me a number of months after my conversion: friends of mine, with regret in their voice, told me that they felt they had lost me as i was not the same anymore. (made a new creation, old things have passed away; it is no longer i who live; newness of life etc.)

Trek, if you read back on my posts, I am not accusing YOU of insulting the Holy Spirit, but I did not like RADLADS remarks about Pentecostal speaking "Gibberish" That is not a nice thing to say. There are many born-again Christians that speak in tongues, including me. To say it is not of God is like saying then it might be of the devil. We can word that better by just saying "I disagree" No harm done then!

[RadLad72]

Originally Posted by Jeff Mills

Trek, if you read back on my posts, I am not accusing YOU of insulting the Holy Spirit, but I did not like RADLADS remarks about Pentecostal speaking "Gibberish" That is not a nice thing to say. There are many born-again Christians that speak in tongues, including me. To say it is not of God is like saying then it might be of the devil. We can word that better by just saying "I disagree" No harm done then!

If it doesn't agree with Scripture, it is not from God. Can we all at least agree on that?

Therefore, the 'tongue-speaking' seen in any number of 'charismatic' churches must be seen as not from God as it is not scriptural. As Trek said, I was calling a spade a spade. The truth is like a double0edged sword that cuts through muscle and bone and marrow. If you choose to take what I have said as blaspheming the Holy Spirit, then you are seeing things wrong, not me saying things wrong.

Remember, Paul was NOT endorsing what the Corinthian people were doing. He was telling them off!

I was not meaning to offend people, I was, however, meaning to bring into the light what they are doing as false. As is proven time and again by Scripture (there are plenty of scripture texts to back me up, but I am sure they have all been covered before and as a result I won't post them again ).

God bless,

Rad.