Fundamentalist Scientists vs Fundamentalist Believers

[El Peatieablo]

Apples to oranges?
[insert unsupported dismissal here]


First, most atheists tend to try to get religion to stop messing with our government and dragging a bunch of unsupported (and in some cases, dangerous) beliefs into the lives of people who would be better off without them.

Second, a person that refuses to have dogma forced upon him/her (and thus being free from religion) does not disqualify this person from being a free thinker. In fact, the opposite action (accepting faith as an acceptable defense for an idea) does prevent a person from being a free thinker.










I like this smiley face (just thought you should know).

[Someday]

First, most atheists tend to try to get religion to stop messing with our government and dragging a bunch of unsupported (and in some cases, dangerous) beliefs into the lives of people who would be better off without them.

No. Most militant atheists may. Most atheists simply go about their lives the same way the average theist does. Live and let live. Radicalism is ugly on both sides. If you want to be aligned with radicals, I won't stop you. I believe government should be secular, just like the USA has been for over 200 years, unlike Europe and Asia. I could care less whether the Ten Commandments or Dawkin's new 10 Commandments (of which there are 15) are displayed in a courthouse. It really does me no harm.

Second, a person that refuses to have dogma forced upon him/her (and thus being free from religion) does not disqualify this person from being a free thinker. In fact, the opposite action (accepting faith as an acceptable defense for an idea) does prevent a person from being a free thinker.

I don't disagree with the first bit. I disagree when radicals claim that you MUST be free from religion to be a free thinker.
The second bit is evidence of your full blown indoctrination. You have your own dogma, you just can't see it.

Blessings

[El Peatieablo]

How are you defining a “militant” atheist? The term carries all of these images of violence (I don’t think the dictionary defines it this way, but it certainly has the rhetorical effect) that I just don’t think is a common product of a lack of belief in the gods. Perhaps a militant atheist is an atheist that talks/debates/argues about atheism/religion. If this is the case than wouldn’t every theist on this site be a militant theist (kind of making the label “militant” useless)?

I suppose I’m speaking anecdotally here (as I don’t have any statistics available) but the vast bulk of atheists that I know would like to see the establishment clause actually followed. They may not be all that vocal about it but they at least vote that way.

Trying to get people with no business in my life to stop forcing themselves into my life is radical now?

What exactly is your definition of a free thinker? You’ve already said that subjecting ideas to experiment/observation and choosing the best supported idea (science) is not within your bounds of free thinking, yet acceptance of unsubstantiated ideas (faith) is.


Good night everybody. Remember to have a good breakfast tomorrow morning; it’s the most important meal of the day!

[Commodore Angryy]

Militant atheist conjures up all kinds of ideas of rambo in full pirate regalia, but we all know it simply means atheists that speak outwardly about religion and their own beliefs etc.

I find it funny how christians constantly say atheism is affecting government with dangerous ideas. Considering atheism doesn't have ideas, i find that kinda funny.

[Mycernius]

Originally Posted by Commodore Angryy

Considering atheism doesn't have ideas, i find that kinda funny.

Does that mean I have no idea, or you have no idea? I have no idea

[Commodore Angryy]

Originally Posted by Mycernius

Does that mean I have no idea, or you have no idea? I have no idea

Individually we have all the ideas we can manage, together we have none.

[Someday]

What exactly is your definition of a free thinker?

Pretty simple really. Keeping an open mind. Once you close it, you are exercising a freedom to close it, but in doing so you have confined your thought. I understand doing that for your work. And I'm ok with you doing it in your life. Don't preach to me that I must confine my thought to your way of thinking in order to be a "freethinker".

Trying to get people with no business in my life to stop forcing themselves into my life is radical now?

I'm a libertarian. If I had my way, the government would go back to doing what libertarians believe governments ought to do. That is performing only the functions that clearly serve a wider public good. Fixing roads, putting out fires, ensuring people do not harm each other physically or unlawfully financially, etc. There would be no intrusion beyond these kinds of simple things. There certainly wouldn't be these so******t programs eating up tax dollars and destroying the economy and making people government dependents in the process.
SO when was the last time you were forced to participate in a church service by the Government, or was made to follow a particular religion? What are they doing to cause you any harm so far? What is the manner of the injury you suffer that makes you want to go to non atheist forums to preach atheism?

Blessings

[Someday]

I find it funny how christians constantly say atheism is affecting government with dangerous ideas.

I would say you are right. Perhaps they mean to say atheists are affecting government with dangerous ideas.

[Commodore Angryy]

Originally Posted by Someday

I would say you are right. Perhaps they mean to say atheists are affecting government with dangerous ideas.

Or perhaps they mean to say "HURR DURRRRRRRRR magic man in sky save me from people who mock me dahhhhhhhhh". Or something similar

[El Peatieablo]

1: Ok, we've replaced one cliché with another one: what exactly is your definition of an open mind and how does faith pass this test.

2: I’m not preaching to you, or anyone else, that they must think the same way I do.

4(‘cause some numbers just don’t deserve being in this list): I’m a libertarian too! Boo commies (except Angryy, he’s cool).

5: Well I technically wasn’t forced to attend because I wasn’t graduating, but my public university had a couple hours of christian whatnot going on during graduation. Luckily the Pastafarian group got that kicked (I think the offer to have our Pastarrr give a service was the last straw). Again, this wasn’t forced on me, but this one was forced on an atheist in the Illinois congress: search youtube for Rep. Monique Davis (I don’t think I’m allowed to post the link in this forum, sorry). While you’re at it, do a Google search for “the american taliban.” Those are some pretty big names saying some pretty threatening things about atheists (including a former president seriously proposing religious qualifications for voting rights). I’m sure that this list is woefully incomplete (especially as I don’t have any specific resources to show you regarding government funding of religious institutions) but I think that you can see my point.

6: Aren’t non-atheist forums the forums where you might expect atheism to be preached? I guess I might just be crazy enough to try preaching atheism on an atheist forum… what do the atheists here think; should I give it a try?

7: I don’t preach atheism; I’m a Pastafarian. I may point out a few mistakes as I see them, but that doesn’t mean I’m preaching atheism.

8: You (Someday) seem to be angry that I am here: do you want me to leave (and if I don’t do you want me to be banned)? Do you want the same for others here with whom you regularly have disagreements? Do you find me particularly irksome (why)?