What are fundies really afraid of?

[Mycernius]

I'm not just talking about christian fundies either, muslims fundies are just as bad, and in some cases worse. I mean what are the really afraid of?
They reject evolution despite all evidence showing that it happens, has happened and is happening. The reject how the planet was formed despite the fact we can see how it happens. The YECs even dispute the age of the universe, again despite all evidence and proof in favour. They lie, twist fact into dubious reasoning (light used to go slower 6000 years ago, heard that one?). They attack, abuse and generall debase anyone who does not follow their brand of religious belief. They will even kill either the non-believers or themselves to prove how right they are? Why

Is it because they are unable to accept that their holy book is wrong? Is it that they are so afraid of death that they cling so desperately to the literal beliefs of scripture? Do they honestly believe that all atheists are out to deconvert them, thus doing the devils work? Or all other religions are the work of the devil? To be honest is it something I am just not able to get my atheist head around or do liberal theists feel the same? I mean are they aware thay are successfully putting more and more people off religion than Richard Dawkins could ever do?

[Someday]

Until very recently, I believed that Europe was becoming more and more agnostic. Evidence now is showing that despite Dawkins (sometimes maybe because of?) crusade against religion, Christianity is growing very very fast in Europe.
Islamophobes Rejoice! EU Countries are Becoming More Christian | The New America Foundation

One look at politics in the UK for example shows that what was once considered political suicide is fast becoming the norm. Admission to belief in God.
Politicians pull out the God card -Times Online

I agree with you that fundamentalists fear their literal interpretations of scripture will be annihilated and that somehow that will lead to an end of their respective religions. I believe the total opposite will happen, and men will return to spirituality as opposed to this so called "old time religion" (Christian fundementalists only go back a very short time on the scale of things...the late 1800's and early 20th century)
NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Christian fundamentalism
Most of them are simply taught that this is how it has always been, or how the early Christians practiced.
Muslims on the other hand are a different lot. Their brand of fundamentalists pursue a political program that derives from their understanding of the Islamic law, the Sharia. For them, the regulations contained in this divine code are the key and must be strictly adhered to.

Blessings

[El Peatieablo]

Hey Mycernius. I think you are making an unfounded assumption (that a lot of atheists tend to make). You are assuming that fundies are using some sort of rational decision making process. I’ll give you an example:

A couple of weeks ago I was talking to some fundie protesters (apparently their god told them to drive 12 hours to a tiny campus in the middle of nowhere to spread the good news that we will all burn for eternity) and they were trying to tell me that the hundreds of contradictions in the Bible (they said there were that many, I didn’t know there were) actually prove it to be the unerring word of an all knowing god.

Now I’m not saying all fundies are entirely without some sense of rationality, but I think it’s fair to say that the guy strapping C4 to himself might not have much more reason to do what he’s doing than my copy of Scilab has for pseudo-randomly generating the number 0.6283918.



On another note, what happens if you take this pill?
It's half red, half blue. Would you be in the matrix or not?

[friendly hardline atheist]

Hi Mycernius,

What I have noticed in a couple of fundies is the great fear of 'If Genesis is not true as it is written, then what about the rest?'. An old earth, evolution and several other things are seen as the first small movement on a slippery slope. Even the smallest concession to reality is dreaded as the first step towards total loss of faith. So no in betweens, not even half an inch. Much more comfortable to stay in that simple mode of thinking where you know what is true and what isn't and to block out anything else.

[Mycernius]

Originally Posted by friendly hardline atheist

Hi Mycernius,

What I have noticed in a couple of fundies is the great fear of 'If Genesis is not true as it is written, then what about the rest?'. An old earth, evolution and several other things are seen as the first small movement on a slippery slope. Even the smallest concession to reality is dreaded as the first step towards total loss of faith. So no in betweens, not even half an inch. Much more comfortable to stay in that simple mode of thinking where you know what is true and what isn't and to block out anything else.

Yet millions of Christians happily accept the age of the earth, evolution and all the so called "atheist agenda" as compatable with their beliefs.

I sometimes wonder if it is somewhere is the same realm as an addiction rather than a slippery slope towards non-belief. Think about it, if you threaten to take away an addicts drugs, would they let you? They are so dependant on the drug that they cannot even see they have a problem, same when you confront a fundie. Show them all the evidence that it is doing them harm, yet they will not give the drug up either by denying what you present or by compartmentalising it, same with fundies.
Now I am no psychologist, although I did do an A level course on the subject once, but doesn't make me an expert, but when you hear hardened addicts coming off drugs often I will hear God helped me. Almost as if one addiction has been swapped for another. So is the fear a lose of control over their lives?

[friendly hardline atheist]

Hi Mycernius,

Originally Posted by Mycernius

Yet millions of Christians happily accept the age of the earth, evolution and all the so called "atheist agenda" as compatable with their beliefs.

Yes, but that won't settle down the fundies. They see these other christians as at the very least heavily misguided, and in the eyes of some fundies bound for that eternal microwave oven along with atheists and believers of all other faiths. During a documentary on the Dover trial one mother of a school child in Dover was filmed having a discussion with another mother who was ok with teaching only evolution. The mad-as-a-fruitbat christian mother was raving at the non-fundamentalist christian mother along the lines of 'How can you even call yourself a christian if you want to give the Darwinists what they want!'. To her, the other mother is under the spell of Satan.

On OCP there was thread recently started by Matt Wills I believe (card carrying member of the anti-science squad, regurgetates AiG drivel etc), bemoaning the belated apology by the church of England to Darwin. They are up in arms about it of course, detesting how, as they see it, the CoE has officially caved in to Satanic materialism.
Funny enough, Jeffs suggested solution was that the CoE shut down, sell their buildings and send the cash to his ministry. There are moments when there just aren't enough vomit bags in the world, are there?

greets,
Peter

[Sazzy]

Originally Posted by friendly hardline atheist

Hi Mycernius,



Yes, but that won't settle down the fundies. They see these other christians as at the very least heavily misguided, and in the eyes of some fundies bound for that eternal microwave oven along with atheists and believers of all other faiths. During a documentary on the Dover trial one mother of a school child in Dover was filmed having a discussion with another mother who was ok with teaching only evolution. The mad-as-a-fruitbat christian mother was raving at the non-fundamentalist christian mother along the lines of 'How can you even call yourself a christian if you want to give the Darwinists what they want!'. To her, the other mother is under the spell of Satan.

On OCP there was thread recently started by Matt Wills I believe (card carrying member of the anti-science squad, regurgetates AiG drivel etc), bemoaning the belated apology by the church of England to Darwin. They are up in arms about it of course, detesting how, as they see it, the CoE has officially caved in to Satanic materialism.
Funny enough, Jeffs suggested solution was that the CoE shut down, sell their buildings and send the cash to his ministry. There are moments when there just aren't enough vomit bags in the world, are there?

greets,
Peter

After I stop laughing myself half to death I might be able to belt out a suitable post............................................:e ek:

OK. No, wait.

Ok

I don't really have anything intelligent or insightful to contribute. I do think you're on to something when you said basically that if the book of Genesis was irrefutably proven to them to be erroneous, then they would have to wonder what ELSE is wrong with the Bible? And that would start the crumbling around them. At least, in some circles. Alot of the Fundies will still argue until their last breath that the rest of the world is full of **** and they are right because God says so. Lol, I'll leave it at that because if I carry on, I'll get wound up....I do actually have a couple of Fundie friends and I don't want to insult them too much.

[Mycernius]

Originally Posted by friendly hardline atheist

Funny enough, Jeffs suggested solution was that the CoE shut down, sell their buildings and send the cash to his ministry. There are moments when there just aren't enough vomit bags in the world, are there?

greets,
Peter

So he can buy more koolaid

(sorry Jon)

[Grace]

I think many of them are afraid of God.
I think it's a subconscious fear in them stemming from false teachings that have caused them to have a distorted understanding of God's character/nature.
Much of how they've been taught to view God's justice, the atonement, sin, heaven, hell, creation, etc, is based on literal interpretations of prophesies, allegories, and stories written in ancient eastern languages to people in ancient eastern cultures who processed speech and writings differently.

Also....most who adhere to the teachings of western theology won't bother to research in order to see how what they are taught came into being.

They say scripture is inerrant, but they won't research to see how some of the English version bibles they read contain errors in transcription because of the transcriber's theological biases.

They won't research to see how myths of ancient Babylon, Greece, Rome, etc. entered Judaism and Christianity.

So....MHO, is....wrong teachings have led "fundamentalist's" to have a subconscious fear of making God forever angry at them.
It's called condemnation.

I am not a science-minded person, so I stay out of those type of discussions. My view of Genesis is that it is about creation....but not in the literal sense that it was done a few thousand years ago. I see it as a prophesy encompassing the past, present, and future plan of God which will have a really, really good ending.

[Someday]

....most who adhere to the teachings of western theology won't bother to research in order to see how what they are taught came into being.

Not only that, but they will often reject everything that someone who does do that research discovers. That is understandable really. It's very difficult to have your world view questioned when you are so sure you have it right. We tend to interpret deep spiritual experiences based on the belief we already hold to be true, so when someone points out the possible error in your belief structure in plain black and white, the tendency is to ignore that evidence. When someone else has a profound spiritual experience and they do not share our belief structure, we are likely to downplay that experience and imagine our own experiences more real that that of the other. When we talk about the evolution of certain Christian Doctrines, and how they were not always held as spiritual Truths, we are likely to be met with strong resistance as if that kind of belief could not possibly be Christian at all.

I see it as a prophesy encompassing the past, present, and future plan of God which will have a really, really good ending.

Amen to That Grace!

Blessings