The New Birth

[herald]

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments and do them." Ezekiel 36:26,27.

We are born sinners and in need of redemption. God robed Himself with flesh in the Lord Jesus Christ, who came to bare away our sin.

He gives us a new heart, a new spirit, and puts His Spirit within us, enabling us by His Holy Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29) to walk with Him in holiness. He "causes us" to walk in His Word - His law.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20.

The old man of sin was crucified with Christ, so that we may walk in newness of life. When His Spirit lives within us, we are empowered by His Spirit to obey His Word.

The mark of false religion is the idea of earning our own salvation, through our own works. "...the plowing of the wicked is sin." Proverbs 21:4. As long as we are in bondage to sin, it is impossible to earn our own salvation.

Jesus said, "Not every one that saith, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven.

MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (lawlessness) Matthew 7:21-23.

Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God." John 3:3.

When we are born of His Spirit, we become children of God, having His life within us. And our Father knows us, because, we are His children. And we know Him - "And I will give them an heart to know me, that I AM the Lord..." Jeremiah 24:7.

We are incapable of earning our own salvation, because, we are sinners. It is by putting our faith in the works of the sinless Lamb of God - the Lord Jesus Christ, that, we are brought into the Father's Kingdom

First, we must agree with God, that, we are sinners. Then, we must believe, that, Jesus bore our sin away. Finally, we receive Him as our Lord, inviting His Spirit to live within us.

This brings us to eternal life, and we will live with Him in His Kingdom forever!

[JM]

Originally Posted by herald

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments and do them." Ezekiel 36:26,27.

We are born sinners and in need of redemption. God robed Himself with flesh in the Lord Jesus Christ, who came to bare away our sin.

He gives us a new heart, a new spirit, and puts His Spirit within us, enabling us by His Holy Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29) to walk with Him in holiness. He "causes us" to walk in His Word - His law.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20.

The old man of sin was crucified with Christ, so that we may walk in newness of life. When His Spirit lives within us, we are empowered by His Spirit to obey His Word.

The mark of false religion is the idea of earning our own salvation, through our own works. "...the plowing of the wicked is sin." Proverbs 21:4. As long as we are in bondage to sin, it is impossible to earn our own salvation.

Jesus said, "Not every one that saith, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven.

MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (lawlessness) Matthew 7:21-23.

Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God." John 3:3.

When we are born of His Spirit, we become children of God, having His life within us. And our Father knows us, because, we are His children. And we know Him - "And I will give them an heart to know me, that I AM the Lord..." Jeremiah 24:7.

We are incapable of earning our own salvation, because, we are sinners. It is by putting our faith in the works of the sinless Lamb of God - the Lord Jesus Christ, that, we are brought into the Father's Kingdom

First, we must agree with God, that, we are sinners. Then, we must believe, that, Jesus bore our sin away. Finally, we receive Him as our Lord, inviting His Spirit to live within us.

This brings us to eternal life, and we will live with Him in His Kingdom forever!

Again thats one viewpoint but it hasnt yet been validated and will always be open to interpretation and debatable about its validity

Its seperation theology

[herald]

It is validated by Scripture. So, you don't believe, that, the new birth brings us into His Kingdom?

The point is, that, it isn't our works, that, bring us into the Kingdom, but, the works of Jesus Christ. This has nothing to do with Israel, it has to do with being justified by grace, through faith.

[JM]

Originally Posted by herald

It is validated by Scripture. So, you don't believe, that, the new birth brings us into His Kingdom?

The point is, that, it isn't our works, that, bring us into the Kingdom, but, the works of Jesus Christ. This has nothing to do with Israel, it has to do with being justified by grace, through faith.

Yes it comes from scripture but its not scripture that validates its truth

Its the one who its talking about that validates its truth and its correct meaning... and so scripure alone will always and is going to be relative truth

[herald]

You didn't answer my question - You don't believe, that, the new birth brings us into His Kingdom?

[JM]

Originally Posted by herald

You didn't answer my question - You don't believe, that, the new birth brings us into His Kingdom?

And your not understanding my replies - It doesnt matter what other people believe.. only Yourself

[herald]

In the Greek, 2 Tim 3:16 says, "All Scripture is God breathed..."

It isn't about what you or I believe, it is about God's Word.

If you are not born of His Spirit, you will be, eternally, lost.

Jesus said, "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my Words, hath one that judgeth him: the Word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48.

It behooves us, to cling to and obey His every Word, while, we, still, have the opportunity.

[JM]

Originally Posted by herald

In the Greek, 2 Tim 3:16 says, "All Scripture is God breathed..."

It isn't about what you or I believe, it is about God's Word.

If you are not born of His Spirit, you will be, eternally, lost.

Jesus said, "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my Words, hath one that judgeth him: the Word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48.

It behooves us, to cling to and obey His every Word, while, we, still, have the opportunity.

Thats fine, thats where we disagree.

Yet it is everthing to do with what we believe, we live in a belief driven world..for when belief changes, so does actions. and choices..

Just because something is written down by man and is classed a historical document that does not make it absolute truth..

You seem to make the assumption that the bible is Untainted, without error and infailable but thats all it is an assumption

I recommend reading some books by Christians who are scholars who have shown proof that it has been changed and has inconsistences such as Bart Erhmans " Misquoting Jesus "

Your current belief is rooted in fear, fear based motivation for relationship with God and this in itself is a red flag and yet its one of the very things that had not changed over the years, its obvious to spot.

Back in medieval times people were burnt at the stake, drowned and beheaded for questioning what was being taught, Tribes were killed if they did not embrace the christian belief... yes by Christians

Today we see it today on a more subtle level.. people are

Kicked out of churches
Prevented from teaching
Given fear based teaching to get them to do what others what them to do.

Its liberating once you realize there is a lot of it is that is just made up and badly misinterpreted, so much today that even respected New Testament Scholars and Textual critics who have the job of uncovering and verifying text have made it clear the bible cannot be relied on for Absolute Truth, neither can it be taken entirely literal

I understand where your coming from, as I've been there.. its your just regurgitating what has been taught to you, so thats fine...

See... the reason I perceive you dont feel its about Belief is because currently your belief that you hold on too is that you feel The bible is absolute truth and despite, peoples belief or interpretation it remains true..

This belief is inconsistent and a statement that is only made by people who have not taken the time to research the roots of the bible or allowed themselves to ask the question of " What is incorrect in the bible? " and if there are incorrect parts .. how do we know which parts are correct and which are not? And even if they are correct... is it clear to understand what God meant?

No one can prove the bible as of yet is Divinely Inspired and accurate to the letter... so you might aswell be quoting from a mills and boon romance novel as it has about as much validity as that, when you have nothing more to say than.. " Well it said so "

We have many Known Scholars who have spent years of their life studying text, hebrew, greek and textual critism who can provide proof that not only has the bible been changed but where it has been changed and why it was changed

One of the things not everyone is aware of is that Todays bibles dont have margin notes showing what changes were made but chat with any scholar and they will tell you that older versions did.. the notes were made by scribes as they corrected things or put in what they thought it should have said.

Why was this removed.. because by leaving them in there people would question what was the original?

Scholars have made it clear.. we don't have the originals or even the originals of the originals.. but just copies of copies of copies of copies... that have been changed both Not on purpose and On Purpose.

Some people dispute with.. Oh but we have the dead sea scrolls.. Problem is that was the Old Testament ( hebrew ) applicable to the jewish nation ( judaism ) and scholars do not feel that even that is The original

Another thing to bear in mind and I think this is important...

There is no known record of information showing that Jesus wanted anything written down..

No " Ok folks I know your going to get confused by the masses of beliefs and views in the world,and I want people to know that I have instructed them to refer to the Bible as the handbook to everything.. so be sure to take notes as if you dont.. you will pay the consequences " nope!

No.. " Ok folks later on im going to work through you and get you to Remember and Write down everything I did and said, and im going to have you write down what i want for the church in regards to going to church on a sunday and how the order of service will go... you better be awake and not misunderstand " Nope!

Give that much thought.... regardless of everything else... there is a reason why Jesus is not recorded as commanding his disciples to write down and keep record of everything....

Yet people took it into their own hands and decided to write down, and much of what we have today that is in the bible that we quote was written by the Disciples and the Apostles were not written by them... in fact they were written years after... by scribes because most people were illiterate.

Textual Critics try to recover the oldest form of what is classed as Authoritative texts.. this is crucial since we cant start interpretating words from the New Testament if we dont know what the words were.

Knowing the Words is important not just for those who consider the words divinely inspired

So seriously.. im all up for discussing this more but lets discuss this logically without just referring to a book which you seem to have not taken the time to understand its roots, if you did you may not be so eager to keep referring back to the bible as your source of ultimate, without error, truth..

Quoting scripture all day long will not prove anything, accept to you who holds the belief of an untainted, without error book..

[Someday]

The mark of false religion is the idea of earning our own salvation, through our own works.

If indeed this is true, and I'm not saying it is not, then why do you go on to describe by what works we are saved?

"First, we must agree with God, that, we are sinners(works). Then, we must believe(works), that, Jesus bore our sin away. Finally, we receive Him as our Lord(works), inviting(works) His Spirit to live within us.

This brings us to eternal life, and we will live with Him in His Kingdom forever!"(through the above works) (Parenthesis mine of course)

I do not believe our belief, our agreement with God, or our reception of the Holy Spirit is of our own doing. I am of the opinion that all of these are sown by God to begin with.

I think there is some confusion today what it means to enter the Kingdom of God. What is the Kingdom of God? Is it not here, in this world? Jesus is quoted as saying it is "within you". Others translate to say "among you". The main idea is not to look outside of what we can perceive already. It's not the afterlife, although those who pass on may be said to still be part of that kingdom. It's the Body of Christ. Jesus advised repentance "for the Kindom of Heaven is at hand". He didn't say it was 2000 yrs or so in the future, He said it was at hand.
The Body of Christ are the elect. Who elected them? For what purpose?
Here is where modern theology falls apart. It fails to realize that the elect are firstfruits, not the whole crop. There is a hint in the Bible the purpose of the elect in the unchangeable plan of God, but only a hint. I agree with Jon in this respect. The Bible is not the whole truth. There is Truth yet to be revealed. I do not pretend to know the ultimate Truth of God, only what He has revealed. The entire Old and New Testament is a record of God's revelation in baby steps, and I suspect there is much more to come.

Blessings

[Someday]

Jon,

I agree with you in many respects, but not for the same reasons really.

I do not share your view that because some things may have been changed in it here and there, that the Bible does not reveal Truth. Scholars are not really in much agreement over what could be a change and what may not be. Revelations for example, Many scholars place it's writing in the years 68 or 69 during Nero's reign. Others believe it was later, near the very end of Domitian's reign, around 95 or 96. It was believed to have been edited in the middle 2nd century, but then a papyri fragment from about 115 was discovered that showed if that particular part was edited, it was much earlier.
Scholars have to earn a living too, and it helps their career to find things. Sometimes they may be right, but imho they often end up wrong.
Paul used a scribe to write his letters, of that many are sure. If this is the case, and the Gospel writers did the same, does this change what they said in some way? For instance, the Gospel of John and Revelations again. Both claimed by many to be the same author. They are both high in "Christology", refer to Jesus as the lamb, and stress Jesus' divine side. One is written in flawless Greek (with an Aramaic flow), the other has many grammatical errors. One uses the same word consistently for lamb, while the other consistently uses another word for lamb. This only suggests different scribes, not different authors. Were they dictated or written? If they were dictated, what language did John dictate them in, Greek or Aramaic? Was Polycarp whom Irenaeus knew a disciple of John, correct in saying John the Apostle was John the Elder? Poly carp even quotes Revelations thusly "For every one who shall not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is antichrist: and whosoever shall not confess the testimony of the Cross, is of the devil". Was he truly a follower in direct contact with the apostles as many claim?
The authenticity of the Fourth Gospel was scarcely ever seriously questioned until the end of the eighteenth century.

I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea of why I personally believe there is merit in reading the Bible as we have it today. Newer ones have better translations than older English versions, and overall seem to be improving in that respect.

We agree about many other things, especially when it comes to absolute truths and such. There are truths, then there are Truths, but none of us have all of it, even if the Bible were totally flawless, it is still just a piece of Absolute Truth.

Blessings