Which God?

[One-Lamb-of-God]

Originally Posted by friendly hardline atheist

Hello One-Lamb-of-God,


If I told you the moon is that big purple banana, you wouldn't believe me right? If I then pointed out the the first statement on the piece of paper and said 'See, there you have it, purple banana it is!' you'd say I'm bonkers. If I then pointed out the second statement to prove the validity of my piece of paper, you still wouldn't be convinced, would you? Yet in your own situation that is exactly what you do. Holding up a book with a darn wacko story (to put it mildly), pointing out various bits of the same book as to why you think that story is true.

greets,
Peter

And it will remain wacko to you, it was to me also when I did have The Holy Spirit of God testifying to me who He is. He showed me, by His Spirit who He is: Judge, Creator, Lover of my soul, Savior of Man, Destroyer of body and soul in hell as well, before He lead me to see it in His Word. So when He would teach me something spiritual and wonderful in time He would show me in His Word, as if to say, "Look my child, I am The Truth and I have written what I showed you thousands of years ago just so you have another witness In My Written Word." And my wonder and awe of God only increased and it still does.

That is a witness to you Peter, nothing more.

This witness, won't convince you or anyone of Who God Really is because it takes God Himself to give you of Himself (His Holy Spirit and His Son within you). But we are sure that we speak the Truth to you because disciples have been given His Holy Spirit who is also The Spirit of Truth.

If you don't have God, your story is not wacko to me because I was no different than you.
I do have God, and my story is wacko to you because God hasn't come to you. Yet. He will, if in His Eyes you are His.
Until then, I accept and know that my speech to you will sound like a wacko person until He "happens" to you - until He gives you His own Holy Spirit. But that doesn't stop a disciple to witness of His concepts, not debate or strive over for thsoe are unfruitful and God is not Glorified in the least. Peter, if you want to experience the realness of who God really is you can't. But you can, once He starts it with you. Man doesn't find God, God finds man - like He did with me. That's another witness to you, not to convince your heart and mind but merely to be a witness to you. But again, until God empowers you by His Holy Spirit disciples accept your non-convincing stance. It's a fact and disciples of Jesus Christ is not called to strive but to be gentle to all men.

Titus 3:3-7

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
KJV


Good day to you Peter.

[friendly hardline atheist]

Hello One-Lamb-of-God,

Thanks for your reply. You stated, in the post prior to your response to me too, that is is an intangible, spiritual thing to know god. But if there is nothing through which we can observe or reason your god, if a person can only feel it, then there would not be any distinction if the believer of any other faith said to me something similar. And plenty of them will believe it as genuinely as you do. So let's take believers from a variety of different faiths (so different as to be irreconcilable), all telling me that their beliefs are true, that I just don't feel them yet. I don't see how they could all be true at the same. I would think all but one must have it wrong. And if at least all but one are wrong, then faith is apparently not a very firm basis, it leaves little hope for the last one. So strong belief is no guarantee that those beliefs are right. In perfect symmetry to your own post, I could turn what you said against you from any other faith and there would be nothing different. Yet you would reject all those other faiths that are on a similar foundation to yours. Hence I reject yours too. It's not very different from what you do yourself, just more consistent.

I'll keep my eye open for your christian god to reveal himself to me some day. But I'm not holding my breath for it any more than for the ancient Egyptian gods to reveal themselves to me.

greets,
Peter

[One-Lamb-of-God]

Do you love Jesus Christ and His Written Word (The Bible)?
Are you familiar with Backaby's and King's book called "Experiencing God", you might enjoy it, but
it won't move God to save you if you don't love Jesus Christ and His Written Word. But it could be
a seed for your heart in the mean time. Why are you on a Christian forum anway friend?

Back to you post~
I'm no different than where you are now, 17 years ago.
I wasn't even on Christian forums or anything they were still texts not with all these images and such.

But I wasn't holding my breath either, God pursued me even while I was loving sin.
Because I was loving sin I wasn't seeking God who is Holy. But because He found this
lost sheep He showed me by His Spirit that He is Holy.

I would advise you, being on the other side (per se), to stop trying to reason and strive and
just live your life and when He wants to manifest Himself to you He will. It won't be anything we
do on our own effort to find God. It's impossible for man to be saved outside of God doing it. But
when God comes to you He will save you and you will know His Own Pursuits - to save you from your
sins and from His Own Wrath through His Son Jesus Christ. Until then, strive not, enjoy the life God has
given you to live. It's that simple. That's what I was doing, I was living my life day by day not striving to
grasp God. I couldn't. I was dead to the things of God. Nor could any man describe God to me where I could
then say, "Ohhhhh ok, I see Him now."

In plain english, God has to Happen to you.
He's God, not us.

What a disciple rejects is sin never people. If a person wants to be a Buddist then that's their business. If God
even wants them to live until He comes again it's none of my business I'm called to keep Following Christ. And if
God uses my life for a future believer it's still God's Business not mine. Jesus had no reputation so where do you think
His disciples are going to get one? No where.

Ok, I'll remove this link. Thank you.

[Mycernius]

Originally Posted by One-Lamb-of-God

Do you love Jesus Christ and His Written Word (The Bible)?

He's an atheist, so I doubt it very much

I'm no different than where you are now, 17 years ago.
I wasn't even on Christian forums or anything.

But I wasn't holding my breath either, God pursued me even while I was loving sin.
Because I was loving sin I wasn't seeking God who is Holy. But because He found this
lost sheep He showed me by His Spirit that He is Holy.

And I can tell you of people who believed in God 17 years ago, but then saw reason instead of superstition.
How about people who decided to become Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish because they felt that the God or beliefs of that faith touched them? Is your faith somehow better than theirs? Are they wrong, if so why, and why are you right?

God Pursues Man:
http://home1.gte.net/web23vhn/God%20Pursues%20Man.jpg

I'll tell you now before this disappears. You can't post links until you reach 100 posts. Forum rules.

[One-Lamb-of-God]

I would rather hear that confess from Peter, thank you.

____
If others are Buddist etc. then that's what they are. If others have turned back, it's none of a disciples business either. A disciple has no strife to give them as well. Man is not a disciples wrestle. Not ever. God is Sov'n, not even one of His disciples. By their own master he either stands or falls. It's not for me to come up to their face and tell them that they are wrong. The Law of God judges them, not a disciple. So what ever they are, what's that to us, we're not their judge. The Master is able to make them stand. Not us.

So, a discple has no quarrel with person, we sing a new Song: Jesus Is Lord. He's our Righteousness, nothing we can boast about anyway nor to strive with others. Like I said, a disciples has been found we have no quarrel nor war even in our thoughts against anyone. God has emparted His Faith to us, we're just grateful for being Alive in Him. And very hopeful of His Completed Work in this whole world.

Jesus has much instruction to his disciples about those who don't believe in Him we are not to bother them in their life. Because it's God who saves we are only called to Love God and others. So we have no strife in our heart toward them in the least, we have been found by God and our old nature is crucified with Christ so we have no war against others. Not to even try to make others see God, they can't. We don't even carry within our own efforts to try to convert them, but when God's in it then it's all a different story. Until then disciples of Jesus Christ have their eyes on Our Heavenly Father through Christ who saves and convicts etc.

I would advise anyone to read Blackaby's book "Experiencing God", it won't save others but I do believe it's a good seed for believers and unbelivers. Peace.

[Gray]

Good morning Lamb (and others),

This is slightly off-topic, but I'm going to ask you a couple of simple questions...

1. Is English your native language?

2. If it is, can you please tell us something that's not related to God or the Bible? Just so I can see the difference...

You see, what I find amusing is that some Christians' vocabulary gets all "scriptural" when they talk about God. Just read Lamb's last post and you'll see what I mean.

Are you unable to talk about the subject with normal grammar? Or do you think it lends extra weight to your views, and we will take you more seriously if it seems you are speaking the words of God, rather than your own?

So, just tell us about something in your town, or the weather, or what you're doing today. Then please enlighten me about the sudden change when things get biblical.

Thanks

[friendly hardline atheist]

Hello again One-Lamb-of-God,

Originally Posted by One-Lamb-of-God

Do you love Jesus Christ and His Written Word (The Bible)?

No. As Mycernius said, I'm an atheist, I don't think Jesus was more than a man with interesting ideas for his time (socially innovative, much appreciated) and a touch of megalomania (thinking of himself as son of some supreme being).

Originally Posted by One-Lamb-of-God

Why are you on a Christian forum anway friend?

I am here because when I was young I was full of belief but then found it was all just superstition, a random flavour of fairy tale determined by the age and country I grew up in. I found that observation and reasoning offer a much better basis for a world view. I never got any satisfactory answer to the critical questions that made me lose my once strong faith. And so I ask these same critical questions (or related ones that spring up in discussions) to believers here, hoping they will critically examine their own ideas. And I like to advocate reasoned or scientific answers to questions. To try to convince people that progress sometimes requires tossing out the old and adopting the better new. And to challenge at any occasion the idea of peoples happiness to have faith, to try convince them that trying to understand things leads to much greater insight than 'I have faith, I believe that goddunnit' and then switching off their brains.

Originally Posted by One-Lamb-of-God

I'm no different than where you are now, 17 years ago.
I wasn't even on Christian forums or anything they were still texts not with all these images and such.

We have traveled opposite routes. I went from strong believer to rational thinker. I was like you many years ago.

Originally Posted by One-Lamb-of-God

I would advise you, being on the other side (per se), to stop trying to reason and strive and just live your life and when He wants to manifest Himself to you He will.

Ah, that bit about 'don't try to reason' is pretty much why I am so critical of many flavours of religion, i.e. they can make people happy to wallow in non-thinking. It can be such a brain turn-off. Somebody, I don't remember who, once said something like

Originally Posted by wise person

The believer is happy, the skeptic is wise.

Originally Posted by One-Lamb-of-God

It won't be anything we do on our own effort to find God. It's impossible for man to be saved outside of God doing it. But when God comes to you He will save you and you will know His Own Pursuits - to save you from your sins and from His Own Wrath through His Son Jesus Christ. Until then, strive not, enjoy the life God has given you to live.

Here I'm willing to be accommodating. I will just live my life and not try to imagine God behind every tree, rock or door without some indication as to why I should. And if I ever meet god then I'll consider my next step then.

greets,
Peter

[Commodore Angryy]

I'm pretts sure that attempting to reason with Lamb is pointelss. He's quite obviously a Fideist. Basicallly, he finds attempting to rationalise faith as a sin, or some kind of dis-service to humanity. Any rationalist christians we can talk to instead?

Oh, and everone else has answered the question "Do you love Jesus, or His word". I don;t love Jesus, i don;t even know the guy. Considering He died a couple of thousand years ago, i don;t think it likely that i'll get to be his mate either. As for His word ... i love that to some extent. In the fact it is my main supplier of ammunition against Christians.
But no, i don't love it in the way you would prefer. You see ... to atheists, you must understand this. It is a dead guy, and a book. Nothing more.

[Someday]

to atheists, you must understand this. It is a dead guy, and a book. Nothing more.

That's not true. If it were true, you would not be here. If it were true, you wouldn't be so obsessed with proving it wrong. If it were true, you wouldn't be obsessed with Jesus.

I just don't feel them yet. I don't see how they could all be true at the same

I guess you only see differences. I am not like you.

Lamb

They are blind. They can only see the material things. They can not imagine letting go of the self. They can't imagine the things you say. They delight in logic and think they have the market cornered, yet never demonstrate the use of it effectively. They think none of us could ever have once thought in the ways they do. I do not believe any of them ever grasped the Holy Spirit. Their words and interpretations and lack of knowledge bears this out. But they think they know, and that is sad. I don't think I will waste as much of my time arguing with them anymore. It's pointless. It's like teaching snakes sign language. They lack the tools. They are like the poor guy that never gets the joke, but sometimes laugh anyway.
You are wise
I admire you. Your words are without malice.

Blessings

[Mycernius]

Originally Posted by Someday

They are like the poor guy that never gets the joke, but sometimes laugh anyway.

Right back at you