God is able to perfect that which concerns His Created People~

[Mycernius]

Originally Posted by The servant

There are only two types in Creation, unconscious and conscious, the unconscious strive to become conscious.
It is obvious to me at least you are striving for the knowledge to become conscious, which is why you come here.
You are amongst many here who are more conscious than you’re self.

Peter

Not only ignorance, arrogance as well. How about actually putting up a valid point of discussion instead of wallowing in the pit of superstition. You have not answered any points bought up in this post, you have avoided them. As I said take the brain out of the water, it's done.

[The servant]

Originally Posted by Mycernius

Not only ignorance, arrogance as well. How about actually putting up a valid point of discussion instead of wallowing in the pit of superstition. You have not answered any points bought up in this post, you have avoided them. As I said take the brain out of the water, it's done.

I have no wish to argue with you, I find that ignorance is obtrusive; I come here mainly to converse with people who believe in God!
As for the ones (atheist) that jump on the threads here I can tolerate a little of them.

You are unable to accept and understand what other people believe so you try to prove them wrong, because you are incapable of understanding the knowledge many of us have of our Creator, is it not said attack it the best form of defence.
You try to defend, because you are incapable of understanding, what others grasp so easily!

Peter

[friendly hardline atheist]

Ok, that's the end of the discussion then. I've been on this forum for a bit over a year and posted about 300 posts worth of debate with believers (and occasionally non-believers). All that time I got the strong impression that both sides were trying to argue their view, explain why they thought that way. But now I learn that I was wrong all that time. Someday and Dave just told us all that reason, observation and rational thinking are no good to come to answers on things. It all can't be argued, reasoned, observed, it can only be felt through faith. How narrow-minded rational people are. Well, I guess I'll just have to miss out on most of what there is then. That feels quite ok actually. And heck, if I ever feel limited in my existence, then I know where to turn. Plenty of people in Belfast who would help me expand my mind. Priests. Pastors. Or more effective still, drug dealers who can really help me see all the things I'm now apparently missing.

One positive thing to come from this at least, is the abdication of the older position that evidence proves god. The new position is not more sensible in my view, but if all christians were to adopt it, it should at least put a stop to christian funda-mental-ists pushing their ludicrous 'creation science' rubbish into school curricula.

Mycernius, my advice to you regarding the discussion on this particular thread would be not to debate much further with certain people. Never debate with persistent lunies. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with their vastly greater experience on that level.

Peter

[Commodore Angryy]

Originally Posted by The servant

You try to defend, because you are incapable of understanding, what others grasp so easily!

Peter

Urm, not meaning to be rude but ... you know that that's a 2 way street, right?

And FHA. Sorry i don't have time to define myself, but google 'fideism'. I kid you not, their rationality lies in irrationalisation itself.

Christians. I know you have basis for thinking the way you do, but it's extremely alien to what the atheists here, being strong rationalists, could ever consider as acceptable.

Basically, i can;t ask you for proof. Only WHY you think the way you do. And contrary to your belief "i felt it in my spirit" is not an argument. It's poetic nonsense. What MADE YOU believe in God, what specifically happened to you that made you devote your life to somethign without corporeal evidence?

[friendly hardline atheist]

Hi Commodore,

Originally Posted by Commodore Angryy

And FHA. Sorry i don't have time to define myself, but google 'fideism'. I kid you not, their rationality lies in irrationalisation itself.

Oh, spot on! Thanks for pointing that one out. I had a look on the wikipedia page of fideism. It had the following, clear-speaking intro:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia on fideism

Fideism is the view that religious belief depends on faith or revelation, rather than reason, intellect or natural theology. The word fideism comes from fides, the Latin word for faith, and literally means faith-ism.

Throughout history, several philosophers and theologians have articulated the idea that faith is more important, or valid, or virtuous, than reason in theology. One can use different criteria for judging statements belonging to the sphere of religion than other areas. As a result, theology may include logical contradictions without apology.

According to some versions of fideism, reason is the antithesis of some faiths;

A bit further down in the article is a line that so well sums it up:

Originally Posted by Tertullian

I believe because it is absurd

Brilliant! Thanks for pointing out fideism. Chalk up one more worthwhile bookmark to keep around.

greets,
Peter

[The servant]

Originally Posted by friendly hardline atheist

Ok, that's the end of the discussion then. I've been on this forum for a bit over a year and posted about 300 posts worth of debate with believers (and occasionally non-believers). All that time I got the strong impression that both sides were trying to argue their view, explain why they thought that way. But now I learn that I was wrong all that time. Someday and Dave just told us all that reason, observation and rational thinking are no good to come to answers on things. It all can't be argued, reasoned, observed, it can only be felt through faith. How narrow-minded rational people are. Well, I guess I'll just have to miss out on most of what there is then. That feels quite ok actually. And heck, if I ever feel limited in my existence, then I know where to turn. Plenty of people in Belfast who would help me expand my mind. Priests. Pastors. Or more effective still, drug dealers who can really help me see all the things I'm now apparently missing.

One positive thing to come from this at least, is the abdication of the older position that evidence proves god. The new position is not more sensible in my view, but if all christians were to adopt it, it should at least put a stop to christian funda-mental-ists pushing their ludicrous 'creation science' rubbish into school curricula.

Mycernius, my advice to you regarding the discussion on this particular thread would be not to debate much further with certain people. Never debate with persistent lunies. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with their vastly greater experience on that level.

Peter

No disrespect to anyone here or elsewhere but it up to each of us to find out the knowledge of God and His Will in Creation.

It is said “he who makes no effort to grasp the Word of the Lord aright burdens himself with guilt”
He, who stands on the ready made opinions of others, walks his path as if on crutches, the crutches referred here are the dead wood, blind taught faith, the learning’s of others; I believe that you must strive to reach your own understanding of what you accept, the awakening will come to many, not all.

Seek and you will find ask, and you will be shown.

I was once like you and if people confronted me with certain religions or beliefs I also rejected them, until I believe it was my turn to awaken, that was when I was guided to the book I read now, and I still reject the religions that teach blind faith, and that Jesus died for our sins, He died because of our sins, not for them!

Whatever level you are on it is up to you to rise above it or go lower, your choice you have all the abilitys within you.

You have been here long enough to realise the path of many is different to your own, one of the laws of Creation is the law of attraction that is of homogeneity, like to like.

As for many here, taunting me into an argument, I have said I have no wish to bite, but when you mock God you mock and offend me also.

Was it not once said somewhere if you deny me do not be surprised if on day I deny you!

Peter

[Dave Robb]

Originally Posted by friendly hardline atheist

But now I learn that I was wrong all that time. Someday and Dave just told us all that reason, observation and rational thinking are no good to come to answers on things. It all can't be argued, reasoned, observed, it can only be felt through faith. How narrow-minded rational people are. Well, I guess I'll just have to miss out on most of what there is then. Peter

Finally you get it!
"IT can't be telt, it must be felt!"

[Dave Robb]

Originally Posted by Mycernius

Happy Easter, We had a white one first thing this morning. As for he has risen. Couldn't he pick a specific date? Christmas manages it. Just shows how the covering up of a pagan festival can cause problems for the invasive faith

Easter is the same every year. It doesn't work according to our calender but the Jewish calender. It is celebrated at the same time as the Jewish passover.

BTW how do you know the day you were born?
You were there, but do you remember? Or do you just believe it, by faith, 'cos your mum and dad said so?

[JM]

Originally Posted by Dave Robb

Finally you get it!
"IT can't be telt, it must be felt!"

And because it cant be Telt and only Felt..

No one can claim to be Right or Wrong... as those who think they are right may be wrong and those think they are wrong may be right.

This obliterates framework by which to judge others by..

[Mycernius]

Originally Posted by Dave Robb

BTW how do you know the day you were born?
You were there, but do you remember? Or do you just believe it, by faith, 'cos your mum and dad said so?

Quite possibly the dumbest case for an argument I have seen so far. How about official documents, independant of my father and mother? Straw man if ever I saw one. I actual expect more from you than this rather weak line of attack.

On Easter google origins of Easter. Some interesting facts come up. Try this one to begin with
Easter - Its Origins and Meanings
Actually this is a good site all round for information of various religions.